Why do customers lie about things that can be disproven by math?

"BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather" (bugeyedacura) 04/09/2017 at 14:37 • Filed to: None

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I can’t tell you how many customers I deal with on a weekly basis that say “Oh your competitors are selling me their car for $50k, and I’m only paying $600 a month for 60 months.

Do the math. That’s mathematically impossible. For those not in the know or bad at math, that equals out to $36k. Which is only ~30k of buying power after fees and interest. The best times are when I get the “I’m only paying 600 a month for the current one, and that’s where I want to be on this one”. And then we pull their payment and it’s actually closer to 800. Why not just say: “I’m paying more than I want to on my current car, what do you have that’s still nice but will meet my payment goals”? Save us both some time!

Doggo lunchtime for your patience.

Conan > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 04/09/2017 at 14:43

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The same reason some unscrupulous dealers lie about things that can be disproven by math?

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Conan 04/09/2017 at 14:50

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Have you actually seen it happen, or is that just a generic “Stealerships are bad” response?

I just want to reply from my phone. > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 04/09/2017 at 14:57

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20k down? Math checks out.

CRider > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 04/09/2017 at 14:58

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Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by stupidity.

I really hate people that only look at payments, they’re basically asking you to rip them off. If thy wanted to save money they’d refinance, not buy a new car .

Conan > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 04/09/2017 at 15:00

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From both sides. I worked at a Ford dealership that was a decent and honest place and heard all sorts of nonsense from customers. I also assisted in the investigation/prosecution of a used car dealership in Louisiana that was specifically selling flood cars to illiterate customers as soon as they showed they were illiterate.

BlueMazda2 - Blesses the rains down in Africa, Purveyor of BMW Individual Arctic Metallic, Merci Twingo > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 04/09/2017 at 15:04

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The single best, yet dumbest thing I’ve ever heard at a dealership from another buyer?

“I’m interested in buying a new (2016) 320i or 328i. I want to be as close to a car payment of $300/mo as I can. I think I can get like $3000 down payment.” - Some lady

*Starts writing down the numbers and typing on his computer*- Salesman

“I have a 2015 VW Jetta S. I want $15k for it. It only has 6k miles. I want to do this over maybe two or three years at most.”

*About 5 minutes pass*

“The payments come down to about $640 per month with a trade in value of $12k and your down payment. I did this for the cheapest 320i on the lot.”

“What do you mean $640? I want to pay $300. Isn’t there anything you can do? Talk to your manager. Lexus leases their IS for $199/mo. I don’t see why it’s $649/mo.”

I should note that I left at this point. I don’t even want to know what happened after I left.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > I just want to reply from my phone. 04/09/2017 at 15:07

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“Sir/Ma’am, with enough down, anything is possible.”

Honeybunchesofgoats > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 04/09/2017 at 15:09

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“Okay, I had to get approval from my manager to do this, but I can get you this $50,000 car for $600 a month for 60 months. I’ll just need $18,000 down.”

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Conan 04/09/2017 at 15:10

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I’ll be honest, I don’t even count those type of places as car lots. They’re so far removed from what real dealerships and salesmen do that they don’t even deserve the title.

Conan > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 04/09/2017 at 15:11

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We did our best and they didn’t retain the title any longer. Sadly you can’t fine crooked/bad customers out of existence for the most part.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > CRider 04/09/2017 at 15:12

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Very rarely does someone only looking at payments end up getting ripped off. Because everyone advertises super-low lease payments now. Everyone wants a fully loaded luxury cruiser for $300/month, and because they don’t understand anything about buying cars, want it with nothing down.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > BlueMazda2 - Blesses the rains down in Africa, Purveyor of BMW Individual Arctic Metallic, Merci Twingo 04/09/2017 at 15:17

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I had one similar to that. I had a customer that was 2 years into her 3 year lease on a previous gen 5GT. She was 26k upside down if we tried to trade her out, and 15k upside down if she just turned it in and owed the remaining payments. On top of that, she was over the total mileage allowed on her lease, with over a year left!

She didn’t understand why her payment wouldn’t be the same if she just walked away from her car with nothing down and got into another car for the same price.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Honeybunchesofgoats 04/09/2017 at 15:18

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Amen!

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 04/09/2017 at 15:19

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I have this happen all the time.

“Your bid is twice as much as so-and-so.”

Oh really? Because that means they would be doing the work at a loss when you look at the costs alone. Let me see their bid then.

[Silence]

That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 04/09/2017 at 15:21

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When I was totally checked out on selling cars and ready to quit, I had a buyer tell me all dealers were liars. My response was something like “only one of us is going to lie today, and it isn’t going to be me.” He did not buy a car from me.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 04/09/2017 at 15:21

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We ask for the competitive numbers all the time. Everybody shops anymore. It’s the reason we started stamping all of our papers with “Internal Use Only” so it gives us the ability to stop them from taking it.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > That Bastard Kurtis - An Attempt to Standardize My Username Across Platforms 04/09/2017 at 15:24

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That goes through my head quite a bit. I had some hillbilly come in and buy a car and after we agreed to price he howled how I had added price back to th deal and “tricked him” all while he was filling out paperwork. He kept signing because he knew I hadn’t but thought him screaming it across the room would make me drop the price to shut him up. I didn’t. And then he tried to call saying he had the car looked at (not inspected) by his buddy, and he said his buddy told him it wasn’t going to pass inspection with the tires on it. I told him to have it inspected then, and if it didn’t pass, to send me the paper and we’d talk then. Funny enough, he never called me back after that.

wkiernan > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 04/09/2017 at 15:30

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I’ve got a good one for you from the customer side. In the course of attempting to buy a new Toyota Corolla at a dealership I was once told “Our computer can’t tell you what your monthly payments are going to be until you sign the contract. That’s just the way the program is. You have to click on the ‘signed contract’ button to find out what the monthly payment is.”

E90M3 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 04/09/2017 at 15:38

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Hey, the payments on the M3 were under 600/month. You never said anything about a downpayment!

fintail > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 04/09/2017 at 15:39

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I’ve noticed some people like to round (down or up) to inflate their story. $600 could be $699.98 or $501.01.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > wkiernan 04/09/2017 at 15:40

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Oh wow XD that’s a lot of dedication to the smoke and mirrors. Was this the prelim paperwork at the desk for the final paperwork in F&I?

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > E90M3 04/09/2017 at 15:41

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Tell me the payment you want and I’ll tell you how much you gotta put down!

coqui70 > wkiernan 04/09/2017 at 18:40

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That actually should be illegal in most states - I would report them.

coqui70 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 04/09/2017 at 18:50

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With sites like TrueCar popping up I’m surprised people just walk in blind into dealerships any more. You may not get the best price but most of the time the deal is good enough to take.

That plus you can model down payment and monthly payment options and compare lease vs. buy. I agreed on price on my last two purchases and arranged financing online before I ever set foot in the dealership. Showed up to verify the contract, check the car for defects, signed and drove away - took me maybe 2 hours total with some minor haggling via email each time.

DipodomysDeserti > Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo 04/09/2017 at 19:36

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I have that happen sometimes but it is because “so-and-so” doesn’t pay even pay their workers minimum wage and are running machines that are about to fall apart.

Dr. Zoidberg - RIP Oppo > DipodomysDeserti 04/09/2017 at 19:45

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Yes, we have competitors that pay their labor a flat rate (specifically: low). That’s just fine, we don’t want the reputation of being the WalMart of our line of work.

NYankee1927 > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 04/09/2017 at 21:21

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TLDR: Is there a maximum you can put down to take advantage of financing incentives?

Last time we bought a truck they were offering $2k in incentives if we financed through them instead of paying cash. We didn’t really care either way, so that is a awesome deal. It just occurred to me though how much of that $2k was eaten into by paying interest. So if I could put say 90% of the cost in at down payment I’ll save a few hundred in interest while I am making the payments to qualify for the minimum amount of time.

Conan > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 04/10/2017 at 09:14

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BMW will be one of our dealership experiences today. Will let you know how it goes.

BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather > Conan 04/10/2017 at 21:34

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What are you doing friend?

Conan > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 04/11/2017 at 00:09

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Stupid deer totaled my Crossfire. Spent the day looking at cars with my Dad, because I like to take him along when I shop and we’re both crazy manual transmission enthusiasts. Didn’t really find what we wanted but most of the non “used car lot” experiences were solid. Ford guy flat out lied to me about how long a 2016 Ecoboost had been on the lot. I called him on it and we didn’t drive out. Mercedes people were super upfront about what I wanted being out for an extended test drive so didn’t drive out. Almost got to a good price point with the BMW dealership on a loaded 335i. We may come to an agreement in the future. Good and bad there. Used wise, people with a nice seeming manual SLK 350 failed to reveal that it had no heat or AC, a Mustang GT had had a small encounter with a guard rail that never made it to Carfax, and a nice low mileage Crossfire had a branded odometer title that Autocheck didn’t reveal for some reason (I should’ve gotten a Carfax.) Fun time with my Dad if ultimately not getting much of anywhere. Taking out my girlfriend to shop for more over the next few days.

Textured Soy Protein > BugEyedBimmer - back in the Saddle Dakota Leather 04/11/2017 at 17:27

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This is simple: most customers who walk into a car dealership are expecting to have to haggle, and they think they need some kind of competitive data point on which to base my numbers.

It’s the same thing with trade-ins:

“I went on Edmunds and it says my car is worth X, I want that plus another $1000.”

“Well sir our Black Book value is $1000 less than Edmunds but we will meet you in the middle for $500 less than Edmunds.”

It’s much better to negotiate with just picking numbers and not confounding the issue with “well this other thing has this other number on it so that’s why I want my number.”